Native Tongue
Is it too soon for a "he said, she said" kinda post? I hope not. 'Cause, decorum isn't usually my best trait. I like doing what feels right for me. Not always at everyone else's expense...lucky you.
I don't intend to kick off another Billie Jean King vs. what's-his-name (I think it was Ima Tool) style debate, but I find this communication dynamic kinda interesting. Not news, by any standard, as it's been going on since there were men and women, I'm sure. When cave women grunted about the children needing shoes, did their significant others roll their eyes and go into a trance as they recalled a spectacular mammoth hunt with Og?
So, let me spend a moment on “chick-speak”. I’m trying to remember exactly when he (he being Highlander) first sprung that particular term on me. And, for the record, he was the first to share it with me…but I get the feeling it’s something guys speak to each other about with some regularity. Anyway, it’s been fairly recently, but I can’t recall exactly. I DO know that when we were picking out drapes for our bedroom a couple months ago, I was trying to explain to him that we needed to select something that would compliment the paint color in the room (a kind of spring green) and the comforter we already had (a navy blue), or we’d have to buy new bed linens to match the drapes and it was an expense we could avoid, if we picked something that would work with what we already had.
He gave me that far-away look that said “Yup. Your lips are moving, but all I hear is French horns.” Reminiscent of the old Charlie Brown cartoons…where the adults all speak in...well…French horns… (And, by the way, while it is completely irrelevant to the discussion, I can totally NAIL that impersonation.) Anyway, I looked at him and said something like “Don’t you agree?”. To which he replied, “Babe, you’re speaking in chick. All I want is something dark to keep the light out when I’m sleeping.” He couldn’t have cared less if we got red velvet drapes with black polka-dots. ::sigh:: Guys…..
I can’t really speak for other chicks out there(unless they do the French horn thing…in which case I can TOTALLY speak for other chicks), but I suppose there are some guys who just don’t give a damn about aesthetics at all. But, I mean, if you’re at the store and they have four colors of drapes and one of them actually MATCHES, doesn’t it occur to guys that THAT one is the one to purchase? I mean, you know, as opposed to the one closest to your hand.
Now, even beyond matters of color selection, this trend branches out to entertaining (YES, you do have to buy food and beverages when you invite people over for dinner…opening up the pantry and announcing ‘HEY, we’ve got peanut butter!’ is not gonna get it.), fashion (no, you cannot wear a Captain America shirt with green sweatpants to work...even on casual Friday), and…come to find out…even decorating for Halloween. As it was PLAINLY obvious to me, this past October, that we needed to hang the two scary rubber bats in front of the porch with the lit windows of our living room behind them for maximum effect. Alas, that was not the case for...er...everyone in the decorating party.
Sure, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy has turned some of them around, but what’s up with the rest of them? Do they really not understand us?
Granted, when guys are doing this in their 20’s, it’s just a matter of them being too young to know better…hell, a lot of chicks have the same issue at that age. But in their 40’s?!?!? Uh uh. They're just not trying.
How can guys go on and on all day about military fighter planes, citing manufacturers, designers (I swear if I hear the name Kelly Johnson ever again, I will scream!), contributions to war efforts, etc., and not know that red wine goes with pasta? They can recite, often line for line, entire comic books from 20+ years ago, lines of dialogue from books they read as children, lyrics of one-hit wonders from the 60's. But they don't know that you aren't supposed to wear white shoes after Labor Day?
My ex once told me that he "refused to learn what clothes matched", because he didn't want to dress his daughters. 'Refused to learn'. Watson, we may be on to something here...
I don't intend to kick off another Billie Jean King vs. what's-his-name (I think it was Ima Tool) style debate, but I find this communication dynamic kinda interesting. Not news, by any standard, as it's been going on since there were men and women, I'm sure. When cave women grunted about the children needing shoes, did their significant others roll their eyes and go into a trance as they recalled a spectacular mammoth hunt with Og?
So, let me spend a moment on “chick-speak”. I’m trying to remember exactly when he (he being Highlander) first sprung that particular term on me. And, for the record, he was the first to share it with me…but I get the feeling it’s something guys speak to each other about with some regularity. Anyway, it’s been fairly recently, but I can’t recall exactly. I DO know that when we were picking out drapes for our bedroom a couple months ago, I was trying to explain to him that we needed to select something that would compliment the paint color in the room (a kind of spring green) and the comforter we already had (a navy blue), or we’d have to buy new bed linens to match the drapes and it was an expense we could avoid, if we picked something that would work with what we already had.
He gave me that far-away look that said “Yup. Your lips are moving, but all I hear is French horns.” Reminiscent of the old Charlie Brown cartoons…where the adults all speak in...well…French horns… (And, by the way, while it is completely irrelevant to the discussion, I can totally NAIL that impersonation.) Anyway, I looked at him and said something like “Don’t you agree?”. To which he replied, “Babe, you’re speaking in chick. All I want is something dark to keep the light out when I’m sleeping.” He couldn’t have cared less if we got red velvet drapes with black polka-dots. ::sigh:: Guys…..
I can’t really speak for other chicks out there(unless they do the French horn thing…in which case I can TOTALLY speak for other chicks), but I suppose there are some guys who just don’t give a damn about aesthetics at all. But, I mean, if you’re at the store and they have four colors of drapes and one of them actually MATCHES, doesn’t it occur to guys that THAT one is the one to purchase? I mean, you know, as opposed to the one closest to your hand.
Now, even beyond matters of color selection, this trend branches out to entertaining (YES, you do have to buy food and beverages when you invite people over for dinner…opening up the pantry and announcing ‘HEY, we’ve got peanut butter!’ is not gonna get it.), fashion (no, you cannot wear a Captain America shirt with green sweatpants to work...even on casual Friday), and…come to find out…even decorating for Halloween. As it was PLAINLY obvious to me, this past October, that we needed to hang the two scary rubber bats in front of the porch with the lit windows of our living room behind them for maximum effect. Alas, that was not the case for...er...everyone in the decorating party.
Sure, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy has turned some of them around, but what’s up with the rest of them? Do they really not understand us?
Granted, when guys are doing this in their 20’s, it’s just a matter of them being too young to know better…hell, a lot of chicks have the same issue at that age. But in their 40’s?!?!? Uh uh. They're just not trying.
How can guys go on and on all day about military fighter planes, citing manufacturers, designers (I swear if I hear the name Kelly Johnson ever again, I will scream!), contributions to war efforts, etc., and not know that red wine goes with pasta? They can recite, often line for line, entire comic books from 20+ years ago, lines of dialogue from books they read as children, lyrics of one-hit wonders from the 60's. But they don't know that you aren't supposed to wear white shoes after Labor Day?
My ex once told me that he "refused to learn what clothes matched", because he didn't want to dress his daughters. 'Refused to learn'. Watson, we may be on to something here...
posted by SuperWife | 9:32 AM
17 Comments:
verification word 'mffkjke'. French horns? ;)
I suspect it all comes down to what we choose to expend space from our biological hard drives on. Different people have different priorities. I'd rather dress comfortably than stylishly, I'm much more about function than I am about form, and yes, I can quote endlessly from comics, books, TV shows, movies, and songs that have some meaning for me, but the notion th at there is some kind of law that determines what color shoes I (or anyone else) can wear at certain times of the year simply strikes me as madness.
Not just average, garden variety, middle of the road madness either, but real Lovecraftian nether deity stuff. I mean, for god sakes, what are there, shoe police?
Still, if it's important to you, then that's fabulous. Whatever you choose to put on your mental hard drive as Vital To Your Happiness is okay with me, as long as I'm near the top of the list.
I respectfully disagree, H. I know I didn't CHOOSE to have this particular database downloaded. I'd wager that very few other women did either. It seems to me that the reasons this situation occur are two-fold.
Primarily, societal gender guidelines, that are generations old, dictate information that female offspring must be imbued with. I've not seen the manual here, but there are certain standards that women accept as the mothers, the maids, the caregivers, etc. I'd assume (and this really is a big assumption) that these guidelines were established in an effort to bring some conformity. Society just loves conformity.
And as a secondary front, maternal figures program this information into their female offspring and propogate the conditioning. I don't believe they even think so much about the logic in it. I'm thinking that it's all about raising offspring that can survive in the world we know. Some years ago, we'd have taught them to wash their clothes by beating them on a rock.
I remember that it was always a big deal to get white patent leather shoes for Easter. I never knew why. I never really even realized that I didn't get to wear those shoes after Labor Day. Just that there were pretty black patent leather shoes that showed up some time later in the year.
It's not something we selectively choose, but I suppose it's something that we, in turn, pass along to our daughters. Had I sons, I would have done the same for them. I don't think all of it is information that is only applicable to women.
Men need to know how to pick out drapes, too...;)
I am surrounded by mostly "metro" guys so I don't run into that too much. But there is one guy who always comments on my blog who has a blog of his own -- I ventured over there the other day and I said something sorta like that, I totally needed a male to english dictionary! I could not understand half the crap he was talking about, all sports stuff and boring stuff...and he has tons of pictures of half naked girls. Ugh.
itsmemarcit@hotmail.com
Talk to me! LOL
In many respects I don't fit the average guy mold. Two examples ar I don't care about sports nor have I ever in my life lusted after any make or model of automobile. Following and rooting for a team are completely alien pursuits to me, and so long as the vehicle gets me there and back again without costing me much in repairs I hardly care what it looks like. I remain profoundly puzzled at the fragile state of self-esteem that would have some guys feel as if driving a mini-van was the social equivelent of having their balls removed and placed on display on a doily.
While I have preferences on the way things look around the house, it's relatively low on my priorities. My wife would have to propose something fairly outrageous before I'd try to shoot it down, and I'd be much more likely to complain about the cost than the appearance. As H essentially said, we tend to see drapes primarily in terms of their function: blocking light. Lacey, diaphanous curtains stike me as something that's almost entirely decorative, and therefore - in such a place - almost entirely useless. Worse, it stings a little more because someone's just paid to get them... and there's still a need to get actual, functional drapes.
Fashion is a scam, and separating the vagaries of fashion from the relative stability of aesthetics is an important but under-emphasized skill. Why? Because too many people make their living directly or inderectly from creating or following trends in fashion.
All that said, providing it doesn't go to excess most guys are more than willing to cede such matters to their significant others. We have to pick our battles carefully and allow each other some territory in which the other is the master or mistress.
Marci -
I've sent the email you requested. I hope it helps!
Mike -
I didn't even WANT drapes. I thought the mini-blinds we had were functional enough. But, if we have to spend the money on drapes, can't we get something that matches the room. Is there some rule about NOT matching? I'm not looking for lacey either. In fact, we settled on a dark plaid that has both the navy and the green color in them, and they work fine. But the color seemingly was completely insignificant.
Working, as closely as I do, with architects, I am entirely too familiar with the concept of aesthetics over form. But, I don't think that some of this stuff is. It's more like form WITH aesthetics. You don't always have to choose one...or do you? Is this the point I'm missing?
I hope that nothing in what I said had any air of affected superiority about it, nor was taken as a swipe at your choices. The worst I intended was that some of these choices are simply not going to be important to most guys unless, perhaps, it made the room look too much as if it's a woman's room.
Certainly, if one's to have drapes they may as well match the room. If it's a bedroom, one hopes, it'll be a reasonably, suitably sedate color/pattern. While many men may be indifferent to this, it's important to not take that as utter dismissal. It's best to accept it as a vote of confidence that you are trusted to make a good choice. Even if they don't appreciate it immediately, it'll make for more pleasant surroundings.
Fashion & aesthetics can go hand in hand, certainly, as can be seen by many of the fashions - be they in clothing, architecture, etc. - that come around again and again, never truly, fully going out of style.
In general I'm suspicious of fashion because it's so driven by rampant consumerism sold to the masses and a drive for profit by the fashion-mongers, and aided by some people with too much time on their hands becoming bored. I'm more than suspicious of anything that is to be praised today only to be scorned and ridiculed a year later. Something's wrong with that scheme. (I'm driven back to Oscar Wilde's definition of fashion as a form of ugliness so bad that it must be changed every six months.)
Changes for change sake and newness over all are interesting starting points for speculation but lousy reasons to spend money on changes -- unless money's very easily come by, perhaps.
It can be an uphill battle, though, because as soon as it gets to that level then the poor guy has to defend himself from the twin charges of being inflexible and a skinflint.
Wow, Mike and I must have been separated at birth. I, too, have no interest in sports or cars; I've never owned a power tool. Still, I have absolutley no interest or knowledge regarding fashion or home decor. My wife always tries to make sure I do not dress myself in a fashion that might make someone suspect I lived in a group home. As for home furnishings, she chooses and I nod respectively and murmur approvingly.
For the record, she DIDN'T want drapes. There's a street light out back that shines directly into our bedroom window even through the mini blinds, and it bugged the hell out of me, so I wanted to cover the window up with something.
My suggestions of (a) garbage bags, (b) burlap or (c) whatever heavy blanket we had in the linen closet that we weren't using for anything else at the moment were met with an expression of horrified shock, however, so we ended up with these here curtains.
Often I just smile and nod. It leads to a happier, better life for me. ;)
A note to the women here, once that I alluded to in my prolix spread above: Even when it seems that we don't care, in the long term it makes a difference. While a thrice-layered bedsheet might make a reasonably good light-blocking drape, in the long term such mean touches drag the people there down. A nice set of drapes, reasonably coordinated with the room, can make an important difference in the mood and general sense of well-being. What you have to put up with (well, okay, you don't have to, but this is how it works best) are our occasional eye rolling at froufrou touches around the house. On some level, even if it seems we don't, I believe that most men appreciate them...but they don't want to talk about it.
I'll second that. I, for one, love having someone in my life for whom this stuff is a priority, and who will make an effort to make our shared environment not only fuctional, but aesthetically pleasing.
Other than brief stays as a guest in other environments where there was also a woman in charge of esthetics, I've never resided in place that was pretty as well as efficient before. I love it and appreciate it. It's just not something I'd ever bother with if I were living on my own.
I should quit while I'm ahead, but I do want to note that functionalism and efficiency have an aesthetic all their own, and it's one that I, like most men, I guess, am capable of appreciating and enjoying. For example, my large book cases are made out of cinderblocks and two by fours. They are quite useful, but, as it happens, I very much like the way they look, too. However, I've learned enough of distaff taste in such things to realize what a monumental concession SuperGirlfriend has made in even allowing me to have the damn things on public display anywhere in her home... to the female eye, these things are just plain damn ugly. But I like them, and I appreciate SG's forbearance in this regard.
'ghqxl' sounds like something from the Monster Manual.
Mike -
You have never offended me. Certainly not here and now. Puh-Lease!
When it comes to decorating, my M.O. is to try to take pieces that I have and make them work together, spending the least amount of money possible to come up with something I can live with. I think I prioritize function over form...I just don't completely disregard form. For instance, in our bedroom we have a double bed (with no headboard), a nightstand, an easy chair, a desk, a dresser, a chest of drawers and an entertainment center, as the main pieces. (It's a big room!) Not one of those pieces came with any other. They are all rather mismatched. But I'm okay with that. Just as I'm okay with the cinderblock and board bookshelves. He likes to say I take issue with them (though he didn't here), but they're part of him and they are functional and we HAVE them, as opposed to buying what would amount to $1000 worth of bookshelves to replace them, I'm good with them. Believe me.
And, yes, I couldn't agree more that when you are living in an environment that shows the love, you'll feel better. I think that goes for feeling better when you're wearing an outfit that you particularly like, too.
Verification word, 'maxbxpg'. Is that a new designer?...;)
Guess I'm an anomaly. My husband is an artist, and knows the difference between aqua and teal. In fact, when we paint things or look for furniture, I just back off and say "who should I make the check out to?" Our guest room is plum and orange, our bathroom is orchid, our living room is maroon and textured tan, and it all looks gorgeous.
He also picks out my clothes. Left on my own, I will wear the same pair of Lands' End black knit pants and Polartec sweatshirt until they disintegrate.
My guess is that HE is the anomaly, Opus. I've heard you're pretty artsy, yourself. I have a hard time believing that you have no sense of these things.
Perhaps he is the resident expert, but you realize that black goes with everything...even if it's a subconscious thing...;)
Ugh. Me simple, have simple needs. Wooman's job to make cave nice, man's job to get bear out of cave and bring home meat to cook in fire.
Honestly, it's really about that simple for me. I've learned that wooden furniture looks good anywhere, so I always prefer it to other choices. Plus, it's wood. Wood's got an asthetic all its own. But beyond that, home decor simply doesn't impact my life much. I've got dozens of framed pictures, and none are up.
That's really bad. Ehh, who has time for frippery? Mind you, I acknowledge that every man's life needs a woman's touch to make it good.
Nate -
Why, OF COURSE, every man's life is better with a woman in it. Are there people who would argue that point? Other than homosexuals? Wow...I'd have never guessed...;)
But here's the thing, if I can speak a little "Dude", why can't you guys speak a little "Chick". I'm totally learning football. I know tools and am handy fixing things. And I can drink beer and outcuss most any construction guy I know.
C'Mon...if everyone was bi-lingual here, it would make communicating a hell of a lot easier!! And that would have to make getting things done easier too...right?
See, the thing is, when a guy says, 'It's fine.', he means that whatever 'it' is, he's ok with it. When a woman say 'It's fine.', it could mean anything from 'I'm okay with it.' to 'If you think you're getting away with that you may as well start packing your shit right now.'
A guy says X, it means X.
A woman says X, it could mean anything.
Guyspeak is a very simple language, whereas Womanspeak is harder to learn than Mandarin Chinese.
It'd be much easier on everyone's part for women to communicate with men in Guyspeak, and translate anything we need to know into our simpler speech.
Understand, we WANT to make you (I use 'you' in reference to all womankind, not you specifically.) happy. When you are happy, you tend to do things that make us happy. It's a very healthy synergism. The problem is, when we don't understand you, we usually end up not making you happy, and then we all suffer unneccessarily.
We cheerfully admit that we aren't particularly bright when it comes to these things. You want something blown up, or killed, or have some sort of violence or relocation done to it? Sign us up. But the touchy-feely stuff we need a little guidance with.
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